B2B marketers can often feel limited by policies, team dynamics, and lack of opportunity. In this first episode, we study the make-up of a successful mountain climber to see what moves them to extend their reach. Bob Cormack participated in the 1977 American Bicentennial Everest Expedition. His story inspires us to have the courage to accept challenges, the humility to support others, and the adaptability to navigate the account-based mindset.
[00:00:00] Hiromi: Do you feel good about what you've achieved today? We all wanna feel accomplishment, but sometimes we can feel limited by our level of influence, or policies, or team dynamics, or a lack of opportunity. So when we feel that way, would you say that we're doomed to our fate, or do you think there's a way that we could adapt to our circumstances and reach our goals with a new approach? In this podcast, we're gonna explore the lives of individuals that have done exactly that. They recognize that their reach was much greater than they may have at one time given themselves credit for.
[00:00:34] Garret: Yeah, and- and I think also we're not talking about a prototypical experience, we're talking about real people who had a passion, who worked hard, and then as a result achieved something. And so I think from that standpoint, all of these discussions that we have in this podcast about reach, even though we're talking about large achievements, the- the qualities that these people exhibit are qualities anyone can achieve.
[00:01:01] Hiromi: Yeah.
[00:01:02] Jaycen: Yeah.
[00:01:02] I think the human endeavor, right? We're trying to uncover what's behind it, what's the mindset behind it, who these people were, the background, what got them interested in pursuing this, what took them through challenges and overcame obstacles, how did they do it? And then even looking back to understand a little bit of the journey and are there things that can be applied to the B2B marketing space, account based marketing. Because there's a human element to all of our endeavors.
[00:01:39] Garret: And, you know, this isn't necessarily a discussion about tools or technology or processes even, although we will go there. This is more about what are some ways that we can apply a mindset to our specific discipline and learn from people who've been to the reaches of human endeavor. And then bring that learning and apply it inside this space.
[00:02:05] Hiromi: So thank you for joining us on the maiden voyage of our B2B marketing podcast, this is Reach.
[00:02:14] Well, it's nice to meet you all. My name is Hiromi Matsumoto. This week we have over 60 combined years of marketing experience on deck. My background is primarily been digital experience design, but we're here with agency founder and CEO Jason Thorgeirson.
[00:02:28] Jaycen: Hey.
[00:02:29] Hiromi: Also with us is chief creative officer Garrick Krynski.
[00:02:32] Garret: Hey everyone.
[00:02:33] Hiromi: So for this episode, we got to speak with Bob Cormack who participated in the 1977 American Bicentennial Everest expedition. And Jason, I know you took lead on this one. When did this story cross your desk? Like how did you learn about Bob in the first place?
[00:02:50] Jaycen: Yeah. So here at UviaUs, we place ourselves as a guide helping companies to reach a goal or the summit. Which is why we use the metaphor of summiting a mountain. And originally I was looking for someone to share that story with the team, just to provide inspiration for what ultimately we're trying to help other companies do. And I found Bob's story on Reddit and I thought his view on it was interesting because it was almost like the accidental summit. Like he- he could've cared less in a way about reaching the summit and so his perspective was to me even more intriguing.
[00:03:29] Hiromi: Yeah.
[00:03:30] Jaycen: To understand why. So, you know, why did you do it? I reach out to Bob, ask him some questions, and then asked him if he'd be willing to share his story, you know, with the team. That's- that's basically how it started.
[00:03:43] Hiromi: Yeah. Well I'm really glad you did. I- I know I learned a lot from Bob. In this first segment, we were interested to understand the make up of a successful mountain climber. What circumstances lead to someone conquering the highest peak in the world. Do people like this experience fear at all? And if they do, what motivates them to extend their reach?
[00:04:06] Bob Cormack: My father died when I was one year old and my mother moved out here from Illinois when I was five years old. I was looking through my folks' pictures just today and the picture on our ranch, we- we were sitting just east of Colorado Springs. And there 15 miles away was the front range of Pikes Peak, [inaudible 00:04:27] the backdrop for the- for the whole farm, so.
[00:04:32] I fell in love with the mountains right then. I mean I never really fell out of love with them. My friends and I started going through caves in the mountains and there's all kinds of places in caves you can't if you can't climb a wall somewhere [inaudible 00:04:49]. So I said "Well, I gotta learn how to climb." Well, I think I was 12 really and we bought a book by Gaston Rebuffat, the French mountain climber, called On Snow and Rock [inaudible 00:05:02]. Basically it told you how to climb.
[00:05:07] What they said about leading a climb there is that they said the leader must not fall. That was the, [laughs], the leader must not fall. For me, it was never really getting to the top of anything. It was getting places I was interested in. And eventually it became I kind of really enjoyed the, uh, collaboration between people.
[00:05:28] Hiromi: You know, I had never heard of Gaston Rebuffat. I'm just Googling him right now. He does seem like maybe he's kind of a kindred spirit of Bob. Because according to Wikipedia anyway, he also started his love affair of the mountains at a very young age. Even though he's from France, I think he was like 14 it looks like. And he grew it into an entire career, but it all started because he had that love of climbing mountains.
[00:05:52] So, you know, it's funny how these kinds of qualities or motivations can come across the ocean in a paperbound book and someone in rural Colorado could just pick that up and just instantly be able to feel a connection. Like hey, you know, this is my people right here, you know?
[00:06:07] Garret: Yeah. There are people who have gone before you and you can read their book, you could digest their experience, but having that curious and inquisitive mindset to get there, you know, it helps to be adaptable as you're learning and as you're doing in the future.
[00:06:23] Hiromi: Yeah. For sure.
[00:06:24] Jaycen: It was interesting talking with Bob, it was clear this meant something to him. That mindset for a leader that, yeah, if the leader falls who are they gonna follow? I think even in an exhibition as we'll discover, there's different people that contribute to the effort. But when it comes to account programs, these are long endeavors. And so someone has to lead that effort. If someone doesn't lead that effort, what's going to happen? It's gonna fall apart. And so, the mindset and the aspiration is important. As account based marketers, we need flexible perseverance. It's like enduring through the process, being adaptable, whatever it- comes your way, being able to continue to lead the effort.
[00:07:06] Garret: And I think if you're on a marketing team and there's a leader who keeps the vision in front of themselves, in front of the team, that person too provides footsteps to walk in.
[00:07:17] Hiromi: Mm-hmm.
[00:07:18] Yeah. I mean, there's certainly a lot of leaders that are just reckless. But the good ones seem to have a healthy respect of the danger. They don't wanna let down the people that are relying on them to lead. But it doesn't keep them from moving forward. They just take the necessary precautions and try to be courageous. That seems like a common thread.
[00:07:39] Garret: Yeah. I appreciated how he fell in love with the mountains and that continued to motivate him throughout his life. And, you know, like we're all working, but there are elements of creation inside marketing, inside this account based approach. There's elements of all kinds of different endeavors, but if you love that process, it'll keep you going. And I think that's so relatable for us.
[00:08:08] Bob Cormack:
[00:08:08] When I go climbing with Gerry Roach I would make a point of stopping about 10 feet short of the top, as long as he was eating to get there, and sit down, and eat a lunch or something. It used to drive him nuts. [laughs]. And then we'd argue about it. So what about trees? Trees can be the tallest. But you don't have to climb trees. I mean, come on, highest point [inaudible 00:08:28]. He-
[00:08:31] Jaycen: I love this part.
[00:08:33] [laughs].
[00:08:33] Hiromi: Yeah. The- the give and take between them and that relationship is funny. Because their mindset is a little bit opposed.
[00:08:40] Jaycen: Polar opposites.
[00:08:40] Hiromi: But yeah. Can you relate to that though? Because I feel like I relate a lot to Gerry Roach. I mean, personally unless I touch the top, it's easy for me to discount all the fun we had along the way. But I appreciate what a purist he was about that.
[00:08:54] Jaycen: And I think it- part of this is just like what's truly important, right? Like, [laughs], you know, getting to the top of said peak. You know, sometimes that can become, uh, a distraction and a roadblock for really understanding what true success is.
[00:09:03] Hiromi: Right.
[00:09:03] Garret: This so reminded me of the interplay between sometimes our team and the client and having this honest discussion about hey, what is real success here? And oftentimes they'll have a metric in mind, a conversion metric, whatever. But true success may be as simple as like okay, we wanna move one person to take this specific action. And just being that simple about it. So that you don't 10 feet from the top and someone's like, "Hey, there's a tree, I gotta go up it." Let's get on the same page, let's understand what's truly important, and then let's achieve that together.
[00:09:50] Hiromi: Yeah, absolutely. Everyone can have a different approach, but we need to establish that we're heading at least to the same summit.
[00:09:56] Garret:
[00:09:56] Yeah. And- and I think also there's a difference between conquest and exploration, you know? If you're a true explorer and you have that mindset, it really helps you to just be present. For the conquest, nothing is of value except for standing on the top.
[00:10:12] Hiromi: Mm-hmm.
[00:10:13] Garret: But for the explorer, everything's of value. And it seems like Bob had this idea that he could enjoy being in the place and the process of getting there just as much as the achievement.
[00:10:26] Jaycen: Yeah. And it opens opportunities, right? It's kind of remarkable to consider as Gar was saying, some people only have in mind the conquest, and maybe they don't get that experience because they're so close minded to other things, other experiences, or being open and collaborative. Having a humility about yourself and being adaptable creates opportunity.
[00:10:46] Garret: I think this quality of humility keeps coming up in this discussion and having that empathy, it enables the adaptability. You know, and so on a team, there's a team dynamic there that he's clearly talking about. He enjoyed literally the process of collaborating, that is the cool thing about mountain climbing. It's not necessarily linear, but the result is all pushing upwards.
[00:11:11] Bob Cormack:
[00:11:11] Climbing a rock, you can do it certain ways, kind of like a substitute for life. You got the perfectly obvious goal, get to the top of this rock, right? And it requires skill, it requires care, it's a little bit dangerous, you have to cooperate. You either succeed or you don't. It's very clear afterwards whether it was successful or not.
[00:11:35] Hiromi: It feels like passionate people like Bob, they can find these metaphors in day to day life and they usually have a passion, sometimes it's- it's football, it's cooking, it's whatever, and they need that outlet because it helps them to digest the complexity of everyday life. They're observant to how they're solving problems in this encapsulated framed experience and they're able to digest that and turn that into something they can use for more complex projects, more maybe practical endeavors in life. I feel like that's kind of what this show is about.
[00:12:15] Garret: 100%.
[00:12:16] Jaycen: Yeah.
[00:12:16] Bob Cormack: Phil Trimble well, geez, I could lead him to- to Everest. Why not? [inaudible 00:12:26] he can [inaudible 00:12:26] somebody at the embassy at Kathmandu, and the guy said, "Well, they're all booked up for the next 10 years." But there's a rumor that all you have to do is convince the Nepali government that you're serious and have a- a serious chance at it and you can get a permit for an 8,000 meter peak. So, he knows a couple mountaineers, you know, uh, [inaudible 00:12:46] was one, says, "Can you find me some real mountaineers?"
[00:12:51] He didn't want any famous people, famous people tend to be prima donnas and they kind of take over the trip, right? They wanna be the big guy, they wanna be first, they wanna be on top and, you know, all that. And I never cared about that. I mean, I was more interested in the team work and in the mountains themselves. Arlene found Gerry and I had been climbing with Gerry before so Gerry recommended me. Gerry knew that I would be a good support person. You need support people and he knew I wasn't gonna compete for the summit because basically I wasn't even sure I wanted to go to the summit to tell you the truth.
[00:13:27] Cathy and I were driving home from [inaudible 00:13:29] and he called me up while we're driving and says, "Hey, I- would you like to go to Mount Everest?" I said, "What?" And he invited me. And I said, "God, Gerry, I- I don't know. Let me think about it." And I thought really if I turn this down, I'm gonna wonder the rest of my life if I should've done it. So I said, "Okay, I'll go."
[00:13:57] Garret: So nonchalant. Invited him out for a pastrami sandwich.
[00:14:01] Hiromi: [laughs].
[00:14:01] Jaycen: Sure. I'll go to Everest.
[00:14:03] Sure. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:14:04] Yeah. I'm open for it.
[00:14:05] Hiromi: Yeah. All right. That's cool.
[00:14:07] Jaycen: Yeah. I thought this was interesting because, you know, in doing research and reading the book The Boldest Dream that Rick Ridgeway authored, he was also on the expedition. This process of actually getting the permit was really important. At the time, there were multiple bids to the Nepalese government and Dan Emmett, he was kinda responsible for trying to raise finances. Basically he goes to a print shop and he wants like this really impressive letterhead. He wants it on heavy bound paper, wine red lettering. And he says, uh, "The name of the expedition is the 1976 American Everest Expedition."
[00:14:46] Garret: [laughs].
[00:14:47] Jaycen: And the- the designer kinda like was thinking a little bit and he's like-
[00:14:52] Hiromi: It's catchy.
[00:14:52] Jaycen: Well if you want ... Yeah. This is real catchy. [laughs]. He's like, "Well, there- there's just- there's one- one problem." And he's like, "What's that?" He's like, "The name doesn't really sound that prestigious." And so he suggested the American Bicentennial Everest Expedition. Dan just says, "Okay." And it- just that adjustment was enough for the Nepalese to award them the permit for the expedition.
[00:15:22] Hiromi: Nice.
[00:15:22] Jaycen: All the other things that came after it were really contingent on getting that permit. So just being willing to be flexible in our approach to put forward what's going to be, you know, the most memorable, the thing that's gonna speak the right way to the right audience. That was a key consideration. And as marketers, that's a key component to communicating with accounts. Does the message gain recognition with the individuals that we're seeking to communicate with?
[00:15:52] Garret: And it's like if they go into that meeting with the government and Dan doesn't allow the designer to make that change or isn't open to that change, maybe a nonstarter for their expedition, you know? And so even in that moment as a marketer, there's a key there to listening, to being fluid, maybe there's better ideas than what you came to the table with.
[00:16:15] Hiromi: Yeah. I mean- I mean that's probably why you don't want people that have a big ego.
[00:16:20] Garret:
[00:16:20] That to me is the teaching here, is that the famous person wants conquest for themself in this instance of going up Everest. Whereas Bob's story is more about let's get to the top together, let's accomplish the goal together. You know, let's, [laughs]-
[00:16:36] Hiromi: Mm-hmm.
[00:16:37] Garret: ... use the funding, create the film for the greater good.
[00:16:40] Jaycen: Not too many prima donnas.
[00:16:42] Garret: Not too many prima donnas. Yeah. This whole mindset of account based really takes the focus off of self and puts the focus on that account. And so, just that recognition of we need a team of people who share that mindset and who are not devoid of ego, but have enough self-awareness that that is the more important goal.
[00:17:07] Hiromi: Yeah. You guys have built teams over the decades. How do you do that? Is there a litmus test for choosing people with those qualities? Or is it about creating an environment where you encourage people to be adaptable, or? [laughs].
[00:17:23] Garret: Yeah. You feel this in hiring, even. When someone clearly cares about other people, you can feel that, right? Those are the types of people you need on the team.
[00:17:33] Hiromi: Mm-hmm.
[00:17:33] Garret: Because this mindset is all about being invested in what someone else wants to do.
[00:17:38] Hiromi: Yeah.
[00:17:38] Garret: You know? Those are the people that you need on your team.
[00:17:42] Hiromi: Sounds like a little bit of empathy that they can empathize with others, or empathize with the goals of a project.
[00:17:49] Jaycen: I think also having defined your own core values and finding people that reflect similar core values. Not necessarily the expertise or the experience that they come with, but are they team centered or self centered? Surfacing some of those truths can help in terms of forming the right team. They understood that even here, right? That they're saying, "Hey, we don't want famous people." So, it starts with understanding yourself and your organization, your- your goals, and what's important to you.
[00:18:17] Garret: Yeah.
[00:18:18] Hiromi: Yeah.
[00:18:19] Jaycen: No prima donnas.
[00:18:21] Hiromi: We only want post madonnas.
[00:18:23] Jaycen: Yeah. Post madonnas are [inaudible 00:18:24]-
[00:18:25] Hiromi: We don't Madonna from like 1981, we want 1997 Madonna, right?
[00:18:30] Garret: Madonna who has learned something and then is willing to be a little bit humble. Maybe adds a surname is no longer just Madonna. You know, like that's-
[00:18:39] Hiromi: Artist formally known as Madonna, yeah.
[00:18:42] Garret: Hashtag Madonna, at sign Madonna, shout out. I love it.
[00:18:47] Hiromi: So, lots to take away from Bob's story so far. And a lot of parallels in developing the account based mindset. I think we've learned that we wanna try to be more adaptable in the way that we lead, in the way that we view challenges and opportunities, and in the way that we view ourselves. We really appreciate you joining us for this first episode. And, you know, if you've ever been intimidated by a new assignment, please subscribe and tune back in for our next episode as Bob and his team start their ascent at base camp.
[00:19:15] Bob Cormack: They talk about the death zone being above 8,000 meters. But really the whole mountain is a kind of a death zone.
[00:19:20] Hiromi: How does Bob adapt to severe circumstances on his way to one of life's biggest achievements? We're gonna explore all that and more next time on Reach.
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