B2B marketing initiatives can be impaired by a number of unforeseen conditions. As we face these challenges, is it best to muscle through, distract ourselves, or adjust our view of the problem? In this episode, we discover how Gregory Burns turned a life-changing physical disability into an opportunity to achieve feats many able-bodied individuals have not. We’ll also hear from author Kobi Yamada on the importance of developing the quality of perseverance from a young age.
[00:00:00] Hiromi: How do you deal with hardships? Do you muscle through? Do you distract yourself? Or do you adjust your view of the problem? In this series, we're going to introduce you to an artist, an athlete, and a public speaker who has inspired the world to persevere. We're also going to speak with authors and marketers and business leaders who can teach us how to develop this quality in our own lives and marketing practice. This is a podcast about B2B marketing and the account based mindset. This is Reach.
[00:00:42] Thanks so much for going us today. My name is Hiromi, and I'm here with CEO and agency founder Jaycen Thorgeirson.
[00:00:48] Jaycen: Hello, everyone.
[00:00:49] Hiromi: And we're really excited to introduce you to our guest for this series. His name is Gregory Burns.
[00:00:55] Gregory Burns: Hi, I'm Gregory Burns. I'm an athlete and an artist, and a keynote speaker. And I like to do all three of those things with passion.
[00:01:03] Hiromi: Gregory's story is really inspiring and you- Jay, I got to give you all the credit for this one. How did you find out about Gregory in the first place?
[00:01:11] Jaycen: Well, like every great story, starts with a little serendipity, you know? [laughs]
[00:01:15] Hiromi: [laughs]
[00:01:16] Jaycen: But, seriously, I was at, you know, I was at a trade show, I was at a conference, and I was ecstatic about the podcast, our little baby, and so I was telling everybody, and explaining, we're interviewing high-achievers from various walks of life, and then taking their mindsets, their learnings, and applying them to our discipline in marketing, and also life and business lessons. And bumped into one gentleman, and after expressing to him what we're doing with the pod, you know, he circled back and he said, "Are you looking for high achievers?" I said, "Yeah, of course. Do you know someone?" And he's like, "I- I have just the guy for you."
[00:01:55] Hiromi: Wow, yeah. Well, I mean, serendipity is... it's the right word. Because speaking from personal experience, it can be hard to find a story this good even when you're actively looking for it, you know?
[00:02:06] Jaycen: You know what's funny is, yeah, like, yeah, it's just so random, but if I got one good thing out of that event, it was- it was probably that intro. You know? It was such a lousy event.
[00:02:17] Yeah. Oh, yeah.
[00:02:19] Overall, but-
[00:02:20] Hiromi: Yeah, you stayed at the trade show, and your perseverance paid off. Right?
[00:02:23] Jaycen: That's right. Stay at the trade show. Yeah, perfect example. Stay at the trade show, look at that.
[00:02:30] Hiromi: Well, we all need perseverance for one reason for another. But seriously, most of us will never experience challenges like Gregory Burns has had. And despite that, few of us have ever achieved as much. How did he do it? Where does perseverance come from? Let's find out.
[00:02:48] Gregory Burns: I'd say my life has been shaped a lot by my parents. Especially my mother. She was very capable. A smart woman. From a small town in Hazelton, Pennsylvania. Grew up with a father who was pretty dynamic. He was a coal miner. He was a minor league baseball player. He didn't have a high school diploma, but he ended up becoming the ombudsman for the community that he was in. Kind of working between, as I understand it, [laughs] working between the politicians and the mafia. So he was kind of that middle man guy.
[00:03:25] So he had a colorful life, which I will never know about, but my mother grew up with very humble roots. And she worked hard. She had some athleticism at a time. She swam when she was younger. But she was a journalist later in life. My father worked in the United States State Department.
[00:03:42] And you know, funny story is my parents, when they met and got married, my mother worked at the State Department as well. And she was a secretary. Yeah. And my dad was what was called an attache. And my mother's position and pay scale, I think, was actually higher than my father's. And I think it was the time, and we're talking now the '60s, right? When women followed the men. Women didn't follow their dreams or their careers. Or the dream was to raise children.
[00:04:11] And I don't think there was a big kerfuffle about that. I never heard my mother complaining, "Oh, I gave up my career for your career," but there was a degree of entertaining that he was expected to do. And at his pay grade, there was no staff. I mean, we didn't have hired help. We didn't have maid. We didn't have any helpers during dinner party.
[00:04:29] Speaker 4: Oh, that surprised me. [inaudible 00:04:31].
[00:04:31] Gregory Burns: So my mother was a chief cook and bottle washer. And then we'd get enlisted to wash the dishes for a quarter, you know, later, after the party was over. But she did that as a proud American citizen would. Helping her husband and his job, but in a way helping the American government to be seen in a positive light.
[00:04:50] So my dad started at the bottom in the State Department and worked his way up. His final positioning at the embassies was the political counselor. So he would be the liaison with the local administration. He would advise on the politics, and how America fit into a country we were at. To- his job really did take us around the world, and- and we saw a lot because of it. We moved every say, two to four years. We were stationed in Jerusalem, in Paris, in Bisbahn, Germany. In Vassenar in the Hague, in Holland. And then in New Zealand. That really also shaped my life a lot.
[00:05:31] Uh, another aspect of that was that when I was a year old, we happened to be in Jerusalem, and there was a polio epidemic at the time. And I, uh, ended up contracting polio as a one-year-old. And I'd say that has probably colored my life quite a bit as well. So traveling and growing up with a physical disability. I don't think I'm defined by them, but they still are major factors in how I've approached my world.
[00:06:06] My parents thought I could be the president of the United States. And why might that be? "You might as well. Franklin Delano Roosevelt had polio." So their sights were a bit higher. I think my mom had a lot on her plate, so she had to be disciplined. She had four kids. The second job, myself, having polio early on. She said the best thing that ever happened to Gregory was my sister Roberta, who I love dearly to this day.
[00:06:34] But what she meant was that because my mother had a third child to take care of, and then a fourth child, my brother Scott, she had to take care of them too. So it couldn't just be doting on Gregory with the braces and crutches. She had to expand and take care of them too. Along with all the other duties of being the wife of a diplomat, she had to raise children. Let's be honest, you know, I- I [laughs] really wasn't the all around nice kid. Back in the old days, we didn't have role models like you do today.
[00:07:04] You know, I think I tried to prove myself, and that came out with meetings with school principals and things like that. So I didn't lay down quietly, and it was my mom who- who had to navigate that journey with authority, I guess you would say. And I think part of it was because I was on braces and crutches, and I wasn't expected to excel in physical activity, mobility was a big deal for me. So when my mother would go out, since my legs don't work, and I have- had long-leg braces, I was using these little crutches. It was a chance to practice, to train, to use my body, to use my arms, to ambulate on crutches.
[00:07:44] So I'd go to the supermarket with her, and there was one time, I will never forget it. We were in the supermarket, and somewhere between the Cheerios and the Pop-Tarts, I fell down. And there I was, on the floor. Kind of squirming, trying to get up. And the other shoppers, I'm sure, were just horrified that my mother would allow this poor little crippled kid to squirm on the floor and not immediately lift him up and stand him up and hand him up. I don't remember looking to my mother to hep me up. But I also recall the message from my mother was, "You got this. You can do this. You're gonna have to do this when I'm gone, so you better get used to it now." She was willing to know what was right for my betterment. Not for hers. So that really did set the stage for me, 'cause yeah, I struggled. I made it up. We carried on. And this was a major turning point in my life.
[00:08:50] After I could walk and stuff, they took me to the school for children with disabilities. Now, back in the early '60s, physically and mentally challenged children were put in the same school. I can still feel and sense that room. Going to this school and being in this classroom and feeling that this was not my home. This was not where I wanted to be.
[00:09:13] So my parents, to their credit, took me to the able-bodied school, the school where you went for regular people with no disabilities. And we met the principal, and they took us for a tour of the school. And at the end, the principal said, "Hey, listen, Mrs. Burns. Yeah, we'd love to have Gregory come here. Fortunately, he can't because the school has two flights of stairs, and no teacher can be tasked to carry Gregory up and down those stairs."
[00:09:37] So my mom said, "Well, that's- that's not gonna work. If Gregory can climb stairs, can he go to school here?" And he said, "Yeah, yeah, that would be good." So my mother marched me home and somehow my dad and a friend of the family, Uncle Scott, constructed a wooden staircase in our backyard, in Glen Mar Park, Washington DC. And I remember, it was white. I was practicing during that summer walking up and down the staircase in my backyard.
[00:10:06] Fall came. It was time to go to school. My mother marched me back to school and said, "Show him." So I climbed up the stairs. And the principal said, "Welcome to school." So don't take no for an answer, and don't give up too quickly because people will often put walls up, and you often will have to push through.
[00:10:34] I had four operations on my legs before I was 13. And there was one summer. I remember. I was eight years old. We had been living in Paris for a couple years. We came back on home leave. And we had this fantastic home leave. We were in a camper van at Disneyland. It was like the magical summer. I knew there was this kind of bombshell at the end somewhere. And then one day, I got up, like, over breakfast or something, and they said, "Gregory, um, tomorrow we're gonna go into the hospital." And that was like, huh. That- that's not what I wanted to hear.
[00:11:11] Basically, with polio, my foot was starting to bend out one way or another. They had to break my tibia, rotate it back, put a steel pin through it, and then set it. It wasn't fun. But I'll never forget. I'm in the hospital bedroom. The anesthesiologist is there. The doctor is there. My parents are both there. I've got a team. They're on my side. This is team Gregory. They're here for me. I can tell that.
[00:11:36] But here I am lying there before they put the needle in. It's dark. The lights are dim. And I have this realization that, look, these people love you and like you and are help you best they can, but no one can go through this except you. This is your fate. You can't run away from this. And I think that made me realize at the age of eight that none of us get out of here for free. We all got these things that gonna smack us upside the head, and we're gonna march through them by ourselves.
[00:12:15] After my operation, and I'm recuperating in the hospital. I remember going around the hospital, and, you know, pushing my little wheelchair. And this doctor, to his credit, and bless his soul. His name was Dr. Adams. And my parents, I learned this, they used to call him Dr. Stone Face, because he had the bedside manner of a bedpan. He really was quite direct. He said to me two things that I'll never forget. He said, "First of all, you'll never walk." And I said, "Wow, okay, I- I'm gonna use braces and crutches for my whole life, okay." And second of all, "Don't get fat." And his idea was that if you get fat, you're gonna have to carry that extra weight. All I remember is rolling away in the wheelchair from that conversation saying, "I just- I want to get back to being me. I want to living a life. And living a big life." I've been fortunate that I've met along the road numerous people with insight on life that was very helpful.
[00:13:13] The same Dr. Adams said the best thing for a kid with polio would be to swim. That would help your body to get strong. When I was in middle school, I was getting in trouble a lot. And I went to gym class, right? To do what? To sit there on the bench. I didn't play basketball. The coach there gave me a medicine ball, like, you know, you know, do some push-ups. And then the principal, who was the disciplinarian, would walk around the school.
[00:13:37] Anyway, one day he came up to me, and he grabbed me by the arm, and he squeezed my bicep. I thought I was about to get in trouble. And he looked at me in the eye and he said, "You're strong." And he walked away. And I'm going, "What do you mean, I'm strong?" You know? Anyways, so he was holding up this mirror to say, "Hey, you- you're strong. You're capable." I've been very fortunate to have people that have taken the trouble to see someone challenged and actually do something about it. Take the initiative. And I've benefited immensely from those voices, and I'm very grateful for that.
[00:14:16] I- I think growing up, I had a chip on my shoulder, if you would, uh, being disabled, being different, being the other, being, you know, the only, uh, kid on crutches and braces in my school, and trying to compete with the people. So in the beginning, there was always this proving myself to others.
[00:14:34] My freshman year in college, I went to Franklin and Marshall, a small college in Lancaster, Pennsylvania. My dad, at that time, was retiring from the Foreign Service. He was gonna move back to California from New Zealand. So after my freshman year at Franklin and Marshall, I drove cross country in my Volkswagen and then began my life in California.
[00:14:54] And I just stumbled onto sports for people with disabilities. Finally, I became comfortable in my own skin in a way. I was able not to compete against you or people that were abled body. That was not a level playing field. Well, I could do this national league. And I could travel. Hey, I'm an athlete. If I swim fast enough, I can go to Rio de Janeiro. So I got fast, and- and, uh, I got to Brazil. Got some medals, and I kinda found my voice. And that- that started a 27 year long swimming career in the Paralympics.
[00:15:30] So in the beginning, I think I tried to prove myself to others. And later in life, was like, "Okay, I- I have to prove myself to myself."
[00:15:40] Hiromi: You know, some of the experiences Gregory describes there, you wouldn't wish them on anybody. But it seems like there's a pretty awesome character emerging from this story that may not have existed without some of those experiences, you know?
[00:15:50] Jaycen: Yeah, I think this idea persevering. The idea is to stay despite whatever comes your way. And as a result of doing that, there's opportunity there.
[00:16:06] Hiromi: Mm-hmm [affirmative].
[00:16:06] Jaycen: Right? And so if you give out at some point, would you ever discover those things?
[00:16:11] Hiromi: Mm-hmm [affirmative].
[00:16:12] Jaycen: You know, would you ever come to different realizations? That's interesting, and I just think about that in terms of even business, of being an entrepreneur, and owning a small business. There's lots other challenges that come along the way, and how you deal with those challenges, just to stay in market is sometimes more important than everything else because if you weren't able to stay in market, you'd never find out what's next.
[00:16:39] Hiromi: Right, it's like, if we're- if things aren't working out for us right now, sometimes we can assume that we're on the wrong track all together.
[00:16:48] Jaycen: Yeah, yeah, totally.
[00:16:50] Hiromi: I want to introduce you to an entrepreneur who's given this topic a lot of thought, actually. And Kobi, would you mind introducing yourself?
[00:16:56] Kobi Yamada: Sure. My name's Kobi Yamada. I'm a children's picture book author out in the Seattle area.
[00:17:02] Hiromi: And so Kobi is quite prolific. He has a number of illustrated books. And they're not, like, you know, this ball is blue, that ball is red type books. You know, he tackles some pretty meaty topics. And one of his books is part of a series, and it's called What Do You Do With a Problem? And it deals specifically with this quality of perseverance, right?
[00:17:23] Kobi Yamada: You know, uh, it- it's funny, uh, that you ask about that book because when I wrote it, everything from major book buyers to people internally in our company thought, "Do you really wanna make a picture book with the word problem on it?"
[00:17:38] Hiromi: [laughs]
[00:17:38] Kobi Yamada: You know, who wants to buy a problem? Who wants to give a problem to someone else?
[00:17:42] Hiromi: Oh, sure, yeah. I can see that.
[00:17:44] Kobi Yamada: And so I had all the same doubts and fears about the book. You know, making it. But I really thought it's important that we start talking about things like resiliency and growth mindset and challenges and problems in ways that I- I believe are constructed-
[00:18:00] Hiromi: So the publication could have almost become a problem in itself. Yeah.
[00:18:03] Kobi Yamada: And granted, nobody wants problems and challenges when they show up. They're- they're heartbreaking. They're disappointing. They're deflating.
[00:18:10] Hiromi: Well, yeah, for sure. But what motivated you to persevere then, in- in producing the book?
[00:18:17] Kobi Yamada: Well, we can't keep avoiding problems. And we can't keep hiding from them. We can't keep procrastinating. We can't keep setting them aside because they don't go away.
[00:18:27] Hiromi: Yeah.
[00:18:28] Kobi Yamada: No matter how old you are, no matter how accomplished you are, no matter how successful you look to the world, you still have doubts and fears. And, uh, you'll have 'em your whole life. They're a presence that you have to work with and deal with.
[00:18:43] Hiromi: Right.
[00:18:44] Kobi Yamada: Because say we did avoid that, and say that anxiety and that fear built up, and that this problem was never really addressed. What happens when another problem shows up? It's not just the problem that grows and that can inhibit our thoughts and become a bigger part of our life. So do our ideas and thoughts and fears about that problem. Anxiety builds up more. And it's harder to face the next thing because you didn't really build the skills. You didn't build any confidence. It feels heavier. And I know that's a very obtuse subject matter-
[00:19:20] Hiromi: [laughs]
[00:19:21] Kobi Yamada: ... for a picture book, but I think it's important that kids can kind of picture that a little bit.
[00:19:25] Hiromi: Yeah, and the book does a beautiful job of that. I think sometimes we think of perseverance as the ability to overcome a problem, but the book, if I remember right, it paints the problem as something that contains an opportunity, right?
[00:19:39] Kobi Yamada: Yeah, I- I think when I think about perseverance, I think about it more as the process of becoming. Something to embrace. I don't think it's something to run away from or just to work through. I think it's part of us, and part of the journey, as opposed to, "Oh, this person grows up, and they become a CEO or a professional athlete, and they don't have fears and doubts anymore."
[00:20:03] Hiromi: Yeah.
[00:20:04] Kobi Yamada: Because I don't know that at the end of the race, you just still win, I think the bigger chunk of your life is the actual running of the race. It's not just about getting that grade or getting that job or that degree. We're always a work in process. And things like courage and creativity. They're not just talents we're born with. They're life skills. So if it's a skill, it's something you can practice. It's something you can get better at.
[00:20:31] Hiromi: Yeah.
[00:20:32] Kobi Yamada: I think that's really the main point of writing a picture book in the first place. It's to elicit conversation and discussion. I don't think that the real power of a book is really what's printed on the page. It's what's happening with the reader and what's happening with that parent and that child at bedtime.
[00:20:47] Hiromi: Yeah, I'm never thought about it that way.
[00:20:49] Kobi Yamada: All of us are always a work in progress. And maybe we can look at that, and instead of that being exhausting or tiring, maybe that can be emerging, can be inspiring, you know, that we have this opportunity to get a little better each day, get a little braver, a little stronger, and- and also a little kinder. And a little more compassionate. A little more understanding. You know, I think if anything, our setbacks and our adversity should help us to realize that other people are going through tough things too, and we can have more compassion for that.
[00:21:19] Hiromi: Yeah, we probably have the tendency to ignore all the advantages we have at our disposal, right?
[00:21:25] Kobi Yamada: Well, you know, the more that we can be grateful for the fact that we get to be alive and get to experience this really one of a kind, unique, remarkable thing is just so literally astounding that you get an opportunity to build your skills, and you get an opportunity to improve, and you get an opportunity to be in the dance of life. Those are all things that are asking for your perseverance. They're asking for your growth. They're asking for your compassion. And your ability to understand others and to believe in yourself.
[00:22:00] Hiromi: Really beautifully said, Kobi, thank you. And thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts on our episode today. If you'd like to see some of these cool books for yourself, you can Google Kobi Yamada, but we'll include a link in the show notes at reachabm.com as well. I hope you'll all join us again next week as we continue to explore the mindset of perseverance. 'Cause as Kobi pointed out, we're never really done with problems in life. But for Gregory Burns, some of his biggest challenges hadn't even begun to reveal themselves.
[00:22:28] Gregory Burns: It wasn't just that I graduated from college and didn't know where or what I was gonna do. All the wheels fell off the cart. A bunch of the things that were solid in my life disappeared.
[00:22:39] Hiromi: What kept him going in pushing himself to pursue new challenges? Let's explore that together next time on Reach.
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